Do Cornsnakes get Respiratory Infections?

[herpivore]

My amel stripe female has been lying with her mouth open often.
At first I thought it was that she was moody (she wasn't handled while growing up, though I have gotten her to the point that she'll let me pick her up without thrashing around and biting me).
I did notice her lying on her back, as if she was a Burmese python basking inverted (side note = she did lay 18 or so eggs, of which 16 hatched at the beginning of July).
I haven't seen any eggs yet, and haven't seen her inverted lately, but she still has her mouth open more often than not.

Her cage is in the 50-60% humidity range - temps are around 70-80 (ambient/warm spot). It's the same setup she's been in the entire time I've had her. I tried lowering the temps a bit, thinking perhaps she was too warm and trying to get rid of excess heat. She's always been perfectly healthy, and eats small rats regularly, just like my other corns. She has a water dish, hide spots (though she prefers burrowing in the corrugated paper liner). She also sheds every few weeks (fairly regularly, off the top of my head).

I think that's about it. If anyone with more corn snake experience than I would like to share, I'd love to hear your ideas or suggestions... should I be doing something differently?

[serpent sister]

My amel stripe female has been lying with her mouth open often.
At first I thought it was that she was moody (she wasn't handled while growing up, though I have gotten her to the point that she'll let me pick her up with thrashing around and biting me).
I did notice her lying on her back, as if she was a Burmese python basking inverted (side note = she did lay 18 or so eggs, of which 16 hatched at the beginning of July).
I haven't seen any eggs yet, and haven't seen her inverted lately, but she still has her mouth open more often than not.

Her cage is in the 50-60% humidity range - temps are around 70-80 (ambient/warm spot). It's the same setup she's been in the entire time I've had her. I tried lowering the temps a bit, thinking perhaps she was too warm and trying to get rid of excess heat. She's always been perfectly healthy, and eats small rats regularly, just like my other corns. She has a water dish, hide spots (though she prefers burrowing in the corrugated paper liner). She also sheds every few weeks (fairly regularly, off the top of my head).

I think that's about it. If anyone with more corn snake experience than I would like to share, I'd love to hear your ideas or suggestions... should I be doing something differently?

hi there im a corn owner my self but im just a begginer i have been on snake forums 4 sum weeks a ppl here are glad 2 help 1 thing it could be is a jaw problem maybe u should get her checked out by a rep vet better safe than sorry .. also would love 2 see pics o ur babys:D

[The Snake Guru]

Respitory infections are possible in any snake, guess the real question is do you see any discharge, bubbling, labored breathing?

Temps could be a little higher, daytime temps should get at least into the low 80s.

~B~

[herpivore]

She acts & behaves normally, except for her open mouth (and perhaps a bit more of an attitude than usual, though that may be my overactive imagination).

I have all three of my adult corns at the same temperatures, give or take a degree... They're all run under identical setups, with a warm spot (heating panel underneath the plastic tub), and an ambient temp of around 70, perhaps a bit higher. I use one thermostat (the BAH-1000 type) to regulate the warm end. I could turn it up, but the snakes always smoosh themselves against the sides (as if to escape the heat) if I raise the temperature any more. If I lower it, they spend nearly all their time on top of the warm spot, and don't show much interest in eating.

I have read care sheets suggesting higher warm side temps, but based on my observations of my corn snakes, I've gone with the slightly lower temps.

However, if you think it will help, I will add more heat to her cage, so the others won't be affected. I've heard of a reptile vet down in Appleton, WI (a bit over an hour's drive for me), but personally I view that as a last resort.

[herpivore]

One other detail...

This years' clutch was apparently her first (her previous owner raised her to breed, but had a baby & couldn't find the time for all of her snakes). Now I see many tellings of first (or successive) clutches only numbering a half dozen to a dozen.
Is it unusual to get so many eggs, particularly from a first clutch?
Is it possible that she overdid it, and is suffering from that?

She did slim down quite a bit after laying all those eggs, but she's been on a regular diet, and is looking quite plump these days. To my observant eye, she seems healthy, but of course I am concerned about her open mouth. I hear all the talk about "R.I.'s", and don't wish my pets to suffer! :(

[The Snake Guru]

Well the other thing I was going to mention is, have you considered the possibilty she may be "double-clutching" ? You did say she plumbed up...have you felt for developing eggs?

Usually when a snake gapes though, there is some kind of respitory something going on, but with there being no discharge, bubbles, or extra mucas that seems unlikely.

I guess personally I would try bumping up her temps for now, and see how she reacts, I personally don't think she overdid it, snakes are pretty efficiant when it comes to knowing thier own limits.

~B~

[herpivore]

Brad, when I saw her lying upside down (like a burm would while basking inverted) I thought of that, but she seems pretty uniformly conditioned. She's not really that plump, more of a fit, healthy, slightly slim sort of shape. Someone on cornsnakes.com told me that corns never lie on their backs (though I'll admit I only caught Arial doing it the one time, and she flipped over when I opened her cage :) ), and take her to the vet, right away!

I was just down in the basement cleaning cages, and her cage (all three of my adult corns' cages, actually) was just a tad under 80 (though there is a cool side (73-ish), and a warmer spot (85-ish) right over the heater). As mentioned earlier, they all are active, eating/shedding/pooping regularly, so I've never worried (much :) ) about them.
The humidity was a bit over 60 (63-ish), probably due to the messes they all had made - normally it hovers in the 50's. I did move everyones' water bowls to the cool side to make an attempt at reducing humidity.
Now I don't really get condensation in the tubs, and I have a single row of holes along one long side of each cage (vs. half a side for my pythons). That seems to keep temps & humidity in the recommended levels. Add to that the fact that I open their cages at least every other day & usually every day, and clean them at least once a week/as needed (which now involves a few sprays of a 1:3 Listerine/water mixture), and I think they are getting enough ventilation/airing out.

Well, she is going into shed again (last time was about 5-6 weeks ago (I keep horrible records, though I'm improving)), and I took her out and handled her for a bit. She jumped a bit when I first touched her, but she's always fine after that. I pried open her mouth and looked at it under the light. Her teeth are there, sure enough, and she breathed regularly through her windpipe. After fighting with her, I did notice a touch of spit build-up, which of course bubbled a bit, and then she had to spit it out when she was back in her cage. After she settled down, her very slight wheeze stopped, and though she still held her mouth open, I didn't notice any mucus or yellowness or anything.
I had sprayed her cage down with the Listerine, and seeing she had her mouth open, gave her a spray as well. I then rinsed her cage and gave her a quick dunk in my "goldfish pond" (a kiddie pool in my basement for goldfish :) ).
Short story = I think the bubbles, etc. I noticed were from the mouth-opening exam & Listerine. I checked on her half an hour later, and she was (mouth open) relaxing silently & foam-free.

I did turn the thermostat for their cages up a notch, and will double-check before bed tonight.

I really appreciate the genuine help I'm getting here!! MyReptilePlanet rocks!! :D

[The Snake Guru]

Well I hope everything gets taken care of. As I'm sure you know diagnosing illnesses from descriptions alone can very difficult so I'm just trying to hit all the bases. Truely though the for sure way to check would be to take her to a vet, they will probably do a culture and see if she's got any minor bacterial infections or something that isn't so severe. I will say though open mouth gaping is not a "normal" thing for a snake to do...so something is up, just hard to say what at this point.

~B~

[herpivore]

Yes, I will attempt to find a vet if this doesn't clear up soon - I do not shirk when it comes to my pets' well-being. It's just odd that there isn't any pain, bubbling, discharge, etc., - just the open mouth. I do hope she hasn't gone wacky! :( She doesn't act any differently otherwise, though.

[The Snake Guru]

I agree man, but there is something going on.....hopefully a vet check may ellude to what it is.

~B~

[Reaper1187]

A few of my corns have done this before. If you are feeding live mice then there is a chance that it has a cut in its mouth. As Sams Bible(the listerine thread) says you should swab the mouth out with the original kind of listerine. Also there could be a chance of mouth rot. do the same thing and clean with listerine. Ive also seen it happen before where they yawn and one side of the mouth does not lock back into place right. Try taking you hand and putting a small amount of pressure on her jaw and see if it will pop back into place. Another thing that is a possibility is that if she recently shed then when they rub the skin down on there head sometimes it actually will make like a lasso effect and hold the jaws open. Just a few things i could think of off the top of my head. hope it helps

[herpivore]

No, no live feedings - I've had her for a year and 3 months or so, and she's eaten ONLY f/t (maybe a couple p/k when I was overflowing with 'em).
I just tried the Listerine the Wednesday night, so we'll see if that helps.
I've been cleaning her cage every day/every other day now for a while - hopefully that will help eliminate any (further) chance at infection.
She appears to be able to close her mouth at will, but prefers to hold it open.
She is currently starting to turn "blue" - her last shed was, I'll guess, about 6 weeks ago.
Anyway, I do appreciate the "trouble-shooting"! I will look into a vet visit soon, though I'd like to figure this out on my own, so I know what's wrong...

[herpivore]

Ariel died yesterday.
She seemed to have passed away quickly, without pain. She may have had an infection, perhaps I overdid it with poking & prodding her & cleaning both her mouth and the cage with the Listerine dilution - maybe there was something additionally (genetically) wrong with her.
Would it be weird to have a vet do a pm on her? Could I determine anything by dissecting her myself? Not sure if I could handle it, but this is a learning experience (I keep telling myself :( ).
Of course, now I am beating myself up about not taking her to the vet. I hesitated, because of the difficulty & expense of taking a day off from work, and making an hour/hour & a half trip to the nearest snake vet (that I'm aware of). I don't know if there would have been hope for her anyway.
I was optimistic, given that she'd never had apparent health problems before, that she looked well-fed (and was a good eater), had a successful breeding season, was able to close her mouth, that her temperament hadn't changed, and the fact that I keep my snakes' cages clean & check on them regularly.

Well, if you administrators don't mind, I'm including a link to another forum where I got some additional advice on her condition.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=516283#post516283

Out of curiosity, I loaded the ad that I purchased her from - it's still good, and has a couple pictures of her. She actually looks exactly the same now (well, before...).
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/pp_classifieds/showproduct.php?product=22469

So, I guess I learned a lesson in a difficult manner, and in her memory, will be in a rush to schedule a vet visit if there's a next time.
It never occurred to me that she was so close to the end. At times like these, I regret my decision not to go on to pre-veterinary school. *sigh*

[ffollett]

Sorry to hear about your loss and the fact that you had to learn things the hard way. The only good thing is you did "learn" something from the experience.

While getting advice about health related conditions from a forum or over the net is a good starting point it can never take the place of having a good herp vet get involved if the problem persists.

[The Snake Guru]

That blows man. Sorry to hear. Good luck in the future.
~B~

[serpent sister]

awww im sorry 2 hear about ur loss she looked like she was a sweety:(

[herpivore]

Yeah, she had a bit of an attitude, but that made her more fun to handle ;)
At least I have some babies to remember her by - and some of them have their momma's fight in 'em! :lol: